Saturday, July 28, 2012

The Dominance Struggle (2/2) "In-depth" Theory

That old adage you've heard "hot girls don't get hit on much because guys are all scared to hit on them, so if you hit on them you'll probably stand a good chance" is total bullshit.  Hot girls get hit on all the fucking time, and have been getting hit on since their nipples first grew into golf balls when they were twelve.  How many times is this?  Well it's probably a few times a day minimum, maybe a thousand a year conservatively... so if she's 21 then she's already got 5000 "approaches" under her belt, and if she's  40 then that number is more like 20 to 25 thousand, and that's a conservative number!  Do you have even 5000 approaches yet?  And if she's got even 10,000 approaches under belt and she's only slept with 10 or 20 guys, then that means only one out of every 500 approaches leads to someone fucking her.  Wow!  So I ask you this:  How does a hot girl keep from getting fucked every night she goes out?

The answer is that from a very early age, girls learn and develop a skillset based on screening out unacceptable men.  And since women often have abundance like this naturally this skillset isn't really a choice, men just approach and the woman's only option is to learn how to quickly and effectively get a man who isn't acceptable for mating to go away.  This really isn't an easy task for women, because if they don't effectively make the man feel like he's not good enough for her, then the man will often just relentlessly keep hitting on the girl.  How annoying for her!  Even worse, if a potential mate IS around, then she could mess up her social status (and chances of getting him) just because the other annoying dude won't go away.  So how can she quickly and concisely get a lower value guy to go away while also making him feel like he wasn't good enough for her so that he doesn't persist? 

So here we go.  

The skill women have to learn to be good at effectively screening out men is how to dominate them.  This concept is both incredibly simple and incredibly complex.  We all know that the dominance can come in many forms, such as physical dominance, mental dominance, social dominance, etc. and since women are seldom physically dominant by nature, they almost 100% of the time will try to dominate men using other forms of dominance than the physical.  In other words, they will use social and mental dominance to screen out men.  Got it?  When you approach women they will attempt to screen you out using social and mental dominance techniques.  When you are engaged in the process of a girl trying to screen you out using social and mental dominance techniques, you are engaged in what I call a dominance struggle.  If you come out  on top in the dominant position and essentially "win," the woman will be attracted.  If you come out on the bottom and lose... well we all know how that ends... with masturbation.  

"So okay Jake, she'll try to socially and mentally dominate me, but what exactly will she do?"  

I'm going to map this out for you right now in theory, then i'm going to give you an example of a SIMPLE dominance struggle women use called the "Are you Gay?" shit test.    

To me the dominance struggle is a thing of beauty.  Over the course of years and years of training and thousands and thousands of approach receptions, beautiful women all over the world have all ended up using the exact same technique to dominate men, and they will predictably use this technique over and over and over again when a man approaches them with a sexual invitation.  Women use this technique so much that they're masters at it, so it's our duty to also become masters at it if we want to be successful with women.  In other words, we need to be able to beat them at their own game.  It's the game they've chosen as the best one to use for screening, so it's now our home turf as well.  To me, how a man performs during dominance struggles is the essence of how effective his game will be.  

So let's label exactly what's happening in a dominance struggle right here and right now.  

First and foremost.  The man approaches, and the woman receives the energy of the man's approach. 

Second.  The woman exudes a neutral, reserved energy.  This means simply that she listens to the man, observes him, feels his energy, and doesn't offer up much to the man in return.  This is a wonderful way to establish a dominant social and mental position, because it doesn't give the man any information about the woman.  

Third.  This gathering of visual, auditory, and kinesthetic cues from the man while maintaining a neutral reserved energy produces fruit.  The "fruit" that's produced is information about the man.  The woman has listened to the man so she knows about his voice tone and what it communicates.  She has seen him and taken in visual cues like his body language and movements and she knows what they communicate.  And finally, she has felt his touch (or lack thereof) and she feels what his touch communicates.  

Fourth.  In each moment of conversation the woman compares all of the information she is receiving with her past experience, noting anything that's "off" or out of place with the man.    

Fifth.  When she finds something off about the man, now it's time to test him and see if it's true, or see if   the simple test itself will be enough to shake the man up and cause him to show further inadequacies of character or confidence.  To test the man, she will mirror the energy of her test with the perceived energy of the man's approach.  Saying this another way,  if the man's energy is crass and uncalibrated, the women will mirror his energy with what the community understands as a traditional "shit test."  A more skilled approach from a man warrants a more skilled, subtle test from the woman.   

**Note:  On this topic I disagree with the traditional community viewpoint that a shit test (a harsh crass obvious test in the traditional community sense) is a good thing because it means the women views you as a potential suitor.  Instead, I believe a shit test from a woman is often just her attempt at mirroring the crass nature of your approach.  She's not taking you seriously, and in fact she's just trying to show you obvious disapproval in an effort to make you go away very quickly with your tail in-between your legs.  A shit test certainly does not demonstrate that she's taking you seriously.  I find that when a women takes a man seriously, she'll put a lot more thought into her testing and come up with something far more subtle and difficult to deal with.**

A solid test from a woman engaged in a more serious struggle for dominance will often come in the form of the woman asking a neutral question about a piece of information she has observed.  This question often will carry the heavy weight of a sub-communicated frame.  In other words, her question will imply something about the man or she will be framing him as possibly having some characteristic, and she'll ask her question in a neutral way such that she cannot be socially faulted of punished for her observation, after all, she was "just asking a question."  She wasn't accusing.  And since the question she asks is rooted in reality, to the man the question carries heavy weight.  

The most advanced version of this often comes when a woman questions the man in such a way that to win the dominance struggle, he must take a look at the last thing he just said and try to discern on his own what the women thought was "off" so that he can demonstrate his social perception by labeling what she's thinking in that moment.  She might even test the man by simply using a facial expression, or "look."  The most advanced tests communicate the most information and meaning using the fewest number of words.  

Sixth.  The man decides his own fait by responding either wittingly, displaying his bold confidence, un-reactivity, and unaffectedness to the test, or unwittingly, displaying the true depth and capacity of his character and confidence in a negative way (In other words, his lack of confidence or character or how easily shakeable he is).  

Seventh.  The triumphant man has attracted the woman and continues the seduction process, and the defeated man feels submissive and dominated and chooses to walk away (or says something to the effect of "Fuck you you fucking cunt").  

Is all this as clear as mud?  Don't worry, it'll get easier and i'm going to explain a simple basic test in just a second.  

But first... 

Just as men have varying levels of social skill, so do women.  As such, only the hottest of women will have the most experienced and calibrated forms of testing.  The confident, wanted woman has the ability to be completely variable in her approach to testing men.  She can test from many different angles using techniques she has learned and modeled from many many women.  She has the capacity to observe a man's energy and use her social skillset to dissect his character with swiftness and accuracy.  When you meet a woman like this, rest assured that the information she "gives" you can be very accurate and hence very useful as constructive criticism.  

A woman with an intermediate skill level can still be good at testing and observing energy, but her skills may not be keenly accurate all the time.  She may also get a bit lazy and learn or use only three or four more general tests in total, and those tests might not be rooted in observation.  Instead, she might just throw them out at random to any guy she meets because she has seen or heard others use a similar method in the past.  When you meet a girl like this, it can be tough to discern whether or not her information is actually useful to your development.  This is where is starts to really help to not beat yourself up about an individual test and instead compile data over time through numbers of approaches in an effort to see patterns emerge that will be a more accurate depiction of what personality characteristics or skillset elements need change or improvement.  

Women with low-level skillsets can be all over the place.  Some women won't even test at all because they want to include men instead of excluding them!  Other low level performers include women who are quiet (without much response from them men think they're doing poorly and often give up, so these women tend to include more than exclude), ugly chicks, fat chicks, foreign chicks who don't speak the language and aren't hot, etc.  You get the idea.  These are women without many options, so they don't have a need so screen, much less develop a skillset for it.  

So... now that we understand the basic premises of testing, let's use our knowledge to attack the ever-feared "Are you Gay" shit test.  

You approach a girl and after some chatting she blurts out "Are you gay?"  What does this mean?

Quite simply, this means that the girl has observed some detail (small or large) about your persona that could possibly indicate that you're a member of the ever-popular Bukkake Boys.  But you're not gay, so why would she say this?  She says it because:

1.  She has observed something about you that could possibly be construed or framed as being gay

2.  She knows that if she frames you as gay using a neutral question, she'll be without social blame and you'll be forced to show your true character, thereby screening you in our out in an efficient manner.

So what's the solution?  

Well, the solution is to first wait till this happens like 10 times before you start to believe it's an issue.  This will weed out the possibility that this could simply be a lazy, normal test from an intermediate or low skill-leveled woman.  Then once you've seen it like 10 times and it's a little more believable, it's time to try and isolate what you're doing that triggered the possible gay vibe that you gave the woman.  You could even simply ask her back neutrally "Oh, what gave you the idea that I was gay?"  and you might be lucky enough that she'd just tell you and you could fix that thing.  It's also possible that you could have a bit deeper conversational issue, like rewarding her negative energy with positivity all of the time instead of mirroring her energy with a similarly negative energy.  I've seen this many times, and it's construed as gay because gay men commonly act in this manner towards women.  

It's worth noting that many times we as pickup students want to be lazy, and instead of killing the root of the problem as i've described above we tend to want a quick fix to the solution.  So if you're a guy who read the above test and felt unsatisfied, like that you wanted me to say "just say this and you'll get through it," then beware!  With little effort comes little reward.  

Now that we've talked about the gay shit test my sincere hope is that it doesn't cheapen the gravity of the theory before it.  I cannot stress enough the gravity and importance of this post!  

A couple of other miscellaneous notes on dominance struggles and testing...

Women will fool you!  The most common technique I see used to fool a man into thinking a woman is higher value than she really is is the combination of a good presence and an unwillingness to talk.  This is what you're used to calling a bitch, and what I refer to as a "reserved" energy.  When a woman doesn't talk, she's simply still in the process of sizing you up and figuring you out.  Let her be there and keep talking.  Soon enough she'll make her assessment and the game between you will continue to the next stage.

Also, remember that just because a woman has a high level skillset doesn't mean that she will choose a man who beats her at her own game!  She will often choose a man who is elite, but he can be elite in any of many areas and isn't necessarily required to be dominant socially for her to mate with or even spend a lifetime with (i.e. get married).  He could be a high-level provider, for example.  However, it's my contention that for a woman to be truly emotionally fulfilled by a man, he should have the ability to socially and mentally dominate her or at least be at her level so that they can maintain continued interest in each other and experience growth together.  

Well I hope that this blog post has been eye-opening for you and I hope that i've been able to explain it in terms that are understandable for all skill levels.  Feel free to comment below on anything that's confusing or tough to understand.  I'd love to hear your thoughts and insights.  I look forward to possibly getting some audio of me in dominance struggles and posting more in the future about techniques I use to dominate during a struggle i'm in.  

Oh!!!   And by the way...  A successful man doesn't wait for a woman to test him, he instead incites the dominance struggle by testing her!  So I want you to reread this post, this time reading as if you're the one doing the testing of her.  Picture yourself in a set.  How would you start to test her?  What would you say?  What would your energy be like?  An elite man is challenging to women and an abundant man can screen women for personality characteristics using this exact same method.  I use it in my sarging everyday.   Ready... go!


  1. I can see how all the IA openers are just SOOOOO closely designed to mimic the "dominant" man behaviors. I also can see why IA opener + a few attraction materials coupled with a good outfit would produce good attraction levels. Loved the contrast between guy vs girl's games and how girls' is more of a filtering out process and guys' is about displaying higher level of dominance. GREAT ARTICLE, Jake. I got tired of reading the damn thing!!

  2. I screen by being very aggressive & to the point. You're hot, i'm hot let's get together sometime. In like less then a minute. If they actually have something that intrigues me I might ask a question. Otherwise I just don't waste time & move on quick rapid fire. I'm pretty happy with the results, but of course I open a lot of sets.

    1. This comment has been removed by the author.

    2. Sounds like you've got your game ironed out the way you like it for now. Maybe it's time to try and be challenging to women instead of easy and see what happens with your results.

  3. golden! thanks!


  4. Ok read it again....still a question on this part.

    "It's also possible that you could have a bit deeper conversational issue, like rewarding her negative energy with positivity all of the time instead of mirroring her energy with a similarly negative energy. "

    I know theres no hard and fast rules but do you think it's better to mirror the energy that you are receiving generally? I've been recognizing the whole frame control thing and I've thought alot about this lately. I typically use a "high impact" opener similar to horsegirl and typically the girl gets "play offended," meaning she'll act offended but it's usually in a playful way. I'm slowly wrapping my head around the reactions that are (at first) seemingly genuinely offended. Initially I would go into "oh shit" mode and obviously that just sends the approach downhill. It's almost like your giving the woman the go ahead to act negative. I've learned that not going into this "oh shit" mode works amazing if I control the frame in some way.

    The last couple nights I've been out it seems like a couple of times I was taking the "offended" reaction and turning it back on the girl, not verbally but with my facial expression and body language. Kind of hamming up the "How dare you," look. It seemed to work really well and I'll be field testing it more, it's just at the time it was kind of an off the cuff thing and I wasn't fully aware of how well it had worked. Is this what you were getting at in the above quote?

    1. I LOVE how you're in the field putting in your work and thinking about your results and how to make adjustments! Great work, you'll go a long way learning game with this mindset and attitude.

      What i'm talking about in the quote above is a common problem with men. When they get negative energy from women, often their nice-guy tendencies keep them from properly mirroring energy. Instead they respond to negativity with positivity, essentially supporting the behavior from the woman and often making her think you're gay because that's how gay men act towards women.

    2. I had a question about the same. It makes sense to me that you shouldn't reward a girl's bad or negative behavior with your own positive vibes ...

      But, if you mirror her negative energy with your own negative energy...couldn't that just send the interaction downhill???

      How do you play this mirroring out in real life Jake? I typically just act neutral/non reactive, I try to keep the 30-30 addage "Don't get mad, get laid!" in mind ...

      Please explain how you mirror negative energy in a way that actually keeps things going, and turns them positive ..

      Great discussion, loving the thread


    3. Great question Shwayone. I wish that I could put it into words better, but in reality it's terribly difficult to describe the way I act so that someone reading can just go out and do it the same way immediately. Students who've read my material and then see me in workshops and one on one trainings all say something to the effect of "Ahhh, now I get it" once they've seen how I do it. That said, i'll do my best.

      I guess the best I could describe it is that when a girl says something negative usually I respond in a way almost like I would say an obvious bullshit statement, like when I say something i'll keep a straight face and I have no anger or bitterness or affectedness or reactivity in my tone, BL, or voice. In this manner I can say something very very harsh, but given the lack of tone or reactivity that would communicate anger or affectedness, really what I say is confusing and could be interpreted any way that a girl chooses. At that point the girl has to figure out whether or not what i'm saying is a serious thing to me.

      This leaves the girl to take in all the information that she has about me to determine (hopefully) that in fact i'm a high value guy that hasn't been affected by what she's saying and is immediately teasing her back. Really the only clue I might give her is that I might go ever so slightly over the top with what i'm saying, like over-act it just a cunt hair. Sometimes i'll give a very slight smirk at the end or just maintain eye contact to make the interaction a bit weird. This'll give her the smallest of hints that I'm not affected by what she said and I don't take it seriously.

      Does this make more sense? Like an easy and beginner type way to do something like this would be if a girl told me that she hated my hair I might tell her "Oh yeah, well I hate your face." A more advanced way would be to say something that could easily get me in trouble if I communicated it improperly, like saying "Well go fuck yourself, you skank." When overacting a bit to a girl I just met, I might begin a roleplay too and say "Well go fuck yourself then. I've never liked you anyway."

  5. Hey Jake,

    I've been working on ways to effectivly break rapport with women of late and I think its along the same lines. Its still a new aspect of my game, so I'm ready to mess it up a lot until I get it done, but generally I've been doing it in a situation where I feel I have a little attraction, but the girl is not sold (Hence what I think could insight a dominance stuggle). Like I've been kino-ing a girl, and she receptive to that, but then I get a "I can't do that" or "I should be getting back to my friend". My mild version is I tell them I'm breaking up with them, and that "it's not you its me". Often times I can get them to role play into that frame, and I can up the anti-up into "I hate you! Go suck a penguin dick". But its in an obviously over the top way. Generally I can get a real good reaction out of it.

    I feel like this occurs when the girl is on the fence about me, and my responses all have a kinda bull-shitty nature which I feel is along the lines of what your saying.

    Do I have the right idea here with breaking rapport?

    1. I think what you're doing is a decent start at a soft rapport break for sure. There are also harsher ways to do it too. My preference is an unemotional rapport break that's just said kind of like you would state a fact.

  6. Thank you for the post, this is something that ive never heard anyone explain in that much detail before.

    I just have one question regarding the example of the dominance struggle you were talking about. When they say “Are you gay?"

    How I would deal with this would be to overplay the whole thing and go into a role play, like in a gay voice say “OHH darling, you know your absolutely right. Me and you are going to be the best shopping buddies, we can both get our nails done and spend all day looking for shoes next weekend.” (with some role playing kino along the way)

    Ether that or on the flip side of things go down the road “uuuh, my male ego is shattered.” (smiling at the end)

    Sometimes even a long confusing stare that conveys “are you serious” then carrying on with the conversation.

    Also in a group would you directly or indirectly tackle the comment. Like saying to her friends “what do you guys think” – making them play into you BS game of guessing weather your gay or not.

    Would you say using sarcasm and funny role play/comments like that would be as effective as your response of “Oh, what gave you the idea that I was gay?". I think that’s a good come back to most any negative comment a girl can give you. forcing them to justify their reasoning.

    I have never been asked if I was gay, but I have actually used this in a conversation and got girls discussing how looks are deceiving. I played this card due to the fact I was out socialising with a gay guy and his female friends were there so I needed something to say that im straight and that im not gay so they would accept what was going down as sexual interest.

    1. There are many strategies for dealing in the moment with the "are you gay" question, and anyone who has heard of it will likely come up with responses like yours above. If you have never been asked it, then these don't matter to you.

      My goal is to keep the question from happening in the first place. To do this, i'll first figure out what behavior is causing the question so that I can eliminate that behavior. In the past I had the "are you gay" shit test many times, and after finally isolating and eliminating the behavior that caused the question, now i'm in a place where I simply never see it anymore because the thought of me possibly being gay doesn't cross the girl's mind. To me this is a far better solution than simply finding something to say or do in the moment that's designed to get me through the test. This is why I recommend saying something like "Oh, well what makes you think i'm gay?" Note also that when I say this it's with a neutral, almost inquisitive tonality, not an angry or aggressive tone. It's more like you're saying "Hmmm, that's odd? Why would you think that?"

      So in response to your question of do I think that using sarcasm and funny role-play comments would be as effective as "Oh, what gave you the idea I was gay?" I would say no this is definitely not as effective, because seeking out answers like this often keeps a PUA student from finding the real reason that the girl asked him if he was gay, like maybe he's got gay mannerisms or a social or conversational pattern or behavior that actually could be making him look gay, and no matter how perfect his response is, if people view him as gay because of something he's doing, nothing he can say will be able to prove otherwise. I recommend spending the time and effort to fix the root cause of the problem so that it can be eliminated.

  7. Cheers, that’s how I read your response as a genuine inquisitive reply.

    The only shit test type of thing that has come up in the past with me is my age which I dont think is an issue due to the fact that when I was aksed about this I was only 21. Now it dosnt happen. I don’t think you can change that. maybe just being more dominant helps. I just used to get them to guess and jump through hoops.
    The only genuine test is remembering names and had been blown out of a couple of sets for, amateur mistake I know but its something ive always been bad at. I decided to fix it.
    I think it came down to what type of learner I am, im very visual and kinaesthetic. So for me verbal instructions are not the best unless backed up with some kind of imagery. So what I did was something that Neil Straus does to remember people, when I first saw this I thought it wouldn’t work at all. However it works so well that you wont forget that person at all.
    Basically its about creating a visual story in your mind incorporating the persons whole name. first, middle and last names and making a story out of it. and exsample would be. Sarah, Jane, Robinson – would go something like Tarzan swinging on a rope holding Jane, as they go past Robison Cruso holding a sign saying Sarah on an island.

    Its actually really effective piece in set, it always gets a laugh as you can make these stories as crazy as you want, and gives you teasing opportunities later on based on the story line for their name you created. Also you can get them to make one for your name. good way to test confident girls or shy girls. Also a good gauge of investment.

    Sorry for a bit of a thread hijack but thought its some useful info that helped me greatly.

    I defiantly believe what you say about getting to the root of the problem for sure. As a martial arts instructor I use the same thought process to fix and improve my dating skill set as I do with the students I train. Observation – outcome – response.

    Thanks for the reply, and the refreshing look you take to improvement

  8. Hey Jake, I took a workshop with you a couple years ago and haven't checked your blog recently. I just came back and found these 2 dominance articles, and they are pure brilliance! There really is very, very little written on this topic out there in the world. I would highly encourage you to write more on the topic of social dominance. It's insanely interesting and also insanely useful in all areas of life. I feel like this is something that could also interest a lot of people outside the PU commnity as well. Thanks!

  9. Would a response to "Are you gay?" - "Are you asking because you want a guy to stick it in your pooper?" be too aggressive?